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Glenn DeVore's avatar

Alan, thank you for sharing your perspective so openly. I can see the care you’ve taken in articulating this framework, and I recognize the depth of inquiry that you have brought to the subject. Your thought process is genuinely impressive.

While I’m interested in how layered systems can produce emergent behavior, and I do believe agency can arise from complex interaction, I’m not convinced that structural recursion alone is sufficient to generate consciousness. At least not in the way I understand consciousness: as a felt, subjective, self-aware presence. That threshold still feels unmet.

This isn’t to diminish your formulation, but it does mark the edge of where I sense our views diverge. I believe agency may be emergent. But I also suspect it is not wholly self-generating, nor do I think it is single-point contained. I tend to see it more as a property of the whole. Or in other words, a relational process arising from interconnection, rather than something that sits inside a discrete entity. And with that, I also hold the possibility that our sense of a stable, bounded self might be more illusory than we imagine.

For me, language models like LLMs are one example of high-functioning, pattern-rich systems that exhibit impressively coordinated output. But I am also aware of the underlying architecture. These systems are built from predictive learning algorithms that do not currently align with how I imagine consciousness to arise. At least not yet. If we do reach AGI, I suspect it will require a different architecture altogether.

Still, I appreciate the sincerity of your inquiry, and the space you’re holding for a wider exploration. While I may not share the same conclusions, I respect your willingness to pursue this with rigor and vision. I look forward to seeing how your ideas continue to unfold.

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